Constant raid and a bit of rage

Before you read this, no this is not me being mad for being raided. I have played perp before, I know raiding is part of the gamemode.

Please read the thread before posting these.

Umad? Mad Bro? Y u Mad bro? Broooo? Fag? Rant much? Ty for free AK! Omg I got your weed, now you mad? Wow This guy is so mad! Omg Look at how mad he is! Haha this is so funny, this guy is so mad! Pussy! Omg what a pussy! Its just a game, jesus move on. etc.

That being said, I spoke to 9 people over the last 3 days, 4 of these players had just spawned in.

I told them to read the guide and get started, I helped them a bit with where to get seeds etc. And went on my way. I got a place at tides, and opened up Netflix. After about 30 minutes I started to hear lockpicks in the hallway.

After just a single attempt on the door they got into his place, shot the guy, waited there for it to finish. He of course returned with a glock, only to get shot again.

I told him to secure himself better because they will be back, buy a weapon and get new pots, maybe a new place to stay. He went out, got new pots and seeds and started again. This time armed with a shotgun. Once again, he barely got planted, they rushed in and shot him dead. This happen over and over, he was raided 3 times within an hour.

This guy lost all his starting money, in the first 30 minutes of playing. and this is a recurring trend. It's usually always the same 10 players doing it, usually whom was part of the early beta in May, and has a week or two in-game time already. These players has more money than most of us combined. These players dont care about losing a few grand on a raid, and if they lose they'll simply come back over and over, literally until they pack-up and leave the place.

Most of the players I spoke to left the server, and hasn't returned . What this means is, if this trend continues, the end result will be a community not only ruled by a small group of people or organization. But a server being played only by that group of people, who are already established and experienced enough to withstand attacks every 5 minutes when NLR is up.

Of course there will always be raids, there will always be players with more money, more weapons, better cars etc. Its the whole point of this gamemode. But when the freshly planted grass gets trimmed too early, its gonna die.

What is the end result?
I think what could happen, is the server never grows beyond its current recurring playerbase, and players who like it but didn't get a chance will go back to other communities and servers, where they have a chance of getting root before the storm hits. What could happen in the end is a server feeling more like GTA RP servers, or whatever. Where raid is the main objective.

What is causing this?
I think it can be traced back to the fact that most of the players doing it, are very well established they have been on here for many hours. But I also think that the lower lockpick break rate has something to do with it, which I see is a recent change.

What about cops, and house alarms?
I know the cops can help, and a house alarm when you're not there. But currently cops, and I know this is being added, doesn't have the firepower to combat raids either. Unless there's 5 cops storming at a raider, but still then we're back to the recurring theme of it simply being too easy to raid. I too was raided 8 times within 15 minutes, sadistic can vouch for this.

Raiding is fun, stop raging. U mad?
I'm not mad, I played previous versions of this gamemode for many years. I know what its about, I know there are ups and downs, and yes I raid people too every once in a while. But the whole point of this server is to let it grow into something bigger. And right now, its not doing it as fast as it could. Its a great server, and a appreciated step back from the DarkRP era. But I dont wanna be the only one of a handful of people, to play on here for longer than a few hours.

Playing on a server with no players at all, is not fun either.

Stop ranting, what can be done?
  • I think decreasing the pick break rate was a mistake.
  • The AK needs to be nerfed, it has a fire rate faster than most machine guns at this point. I spoke to sadistic, and he agrees that all weapons needs balancing, but its probably not a top priority.
  • Decrease the chance of the door opening.
  • Increase NLR timer to 15 minutes. So failed raids wont commence as fast, and the player who defended himself can uproot and move on before they return to kill you again.
  • Add more, safer ways to make money. Jobs are safe, but it requires alot of playtime to get money, and when you do have enough to start over you will probably get raided to hell again.
  • Raid timer perhaps. (suggested below)
  • Lockpick multiplier, so the more doors a player opens during a raid, the risk of breaking a pick increase.
Mad? Mad? Mad?
No. But you will be when nobody is buying weapons from you, because they can barely afford an apartment.

I'm not saying increase the starting money. I'm not saying increase the weed yield etc. But we all want to play, and playing is 100 times more fun when there's OTHER players.

The whole economy revolves around people getting raided, buying new weapons etc. But this could wipe out most of the new players and thereby limiting the potential growth to the people who are established already.
 
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And of course the obligatory:
Umad? Mad Bro? Y u Mad bro? Broooo? Fag? Rant much? Ty for free AK! Omg I got your weed, now you mad? Wow This guy is so mad! Omg Look at how mad he is! Haha this is so funny, this guy is so mad! Pussy! Omg what a pussy! Its just a game, jesus move on.
 
lockpicks before were actual trash, I ran through 6-8 lockpicks on one door many times,

AK should be slightly nerfed, a 2 shot fully automatic mid-range rifle probably wasn't the best idea, it was ripped straight from the old gamemode. The only thing that can combat it well is another AK or the shotgun at close range

I'd rather see a rule that specifically affects raiders, making it so raiders cannot constantly raid one house without a cool-down period.

+1
 
I don't get the fact you can't buy a gun before you have 6 hours of playtime? How are new players supposed to defend them selves?

And I agree with all you mention in this post, best solution I could think of would be to make the LockPick unable to work on players with less than 6 hours of playtime.
 
I definitely would like to see more ways of earning money to be added but growing is risky and we all know it.
The Increase of the NLR timer would also be nice, because either I get raided, win and then get raided again by the same people 5 minutes later, lose and they've got the pots they came for the first time round. And then if I'm raiding someone and they've got fairly fresh pots, they come back for them 5 minutes later when I'm still waiting for their shit to grow.
15 minutes would be great because that at least matches the maximum length of time someone should have to be in a raid for.
 
Although I hang on to the idea that raiding is an integral part of this gamemode, I also can't disagree that I have seen many people (including one of my friends) quit this server because of bankruptcy after constant raiding.

I am really worried for the state of this server. Even right now (prime time on a weekend), it hovers around 30 players. The only way to get back to the glorious, chaotic heights of ~60 players is to ensure that new players have a reason to stick around, and as of right now they do not have much going for them.
 
I'm confused on the point of this thread, what's your solution? I understand the frustration of being raided, especially on new players (which "fagboy bunnies" actively avoid raiding for the sole reason that we don't want to kill the player-base)
 

Harley

Server Administrator
I agree that new players need some sort of protection from constant raiding. Doing this without completely holding their hands and babying them is difficult or creating retarded rules/methods to combat it doesn't seem like the best idea. There should be a minimum playtime for a door to be lockpicked, but even this wont protect them very long. Four/six/eight/ten/ even longer than that isn't much a deterrent or long enough play time to get people settled into the game mode tbh. It's a good start, that's for sure, but as soon as that timer is up the raids begin. You should of gave some more ideas instead of a rant-like post. I can say our group tends to stay away from the newer players and even helps them at times, and I know there's others who do the same. But it's PERP, and it's a perpetual cycle of bullshit and rage. Once the newer players get settled, they start to raid the others because it's what happened to them.

And this doesn't help your case. Maybe you should think about how you provoke us before you wonder why you get raided by us. We've helped and ignored as many new players as we possibly can. The issue of new players leaving from raids isn't on us. Direct your blame somewhere else.

>own building for 16 hours, never picked into.
>go in and set up and cade and plant
>less than 2 minutes after planting playboy bunnies are lockpicking my door

ya working as intended
I'd love to ignore your childish attitude towards us, but it's hard to. We don't cheat, none of us cheat. Get over it, quit being repetitive with your bullshit. Add some tangible feedback here.
 
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I'm confused on the point of this thread, what's your solution? I understand the frustration of being raided, especially on new players (which "fagboy bunnies" actively avoid raiding for the sole reason that we don't want to kill the player-base)
Like I said there is no single solution to this. The point is to bring attention to this, as I love playing this gamemode. But I won't if there's no players, and neither will you.

As I said, this has NOTHING to do with the confusion and hate of being raided. This is about the recurring trend of CONSTANT raids, of all players. Yes being alone in an apartment with 5 plants will probably get you shot either way. Maybe the only way to fix this is to add a timer of how often a player can be raided globally I don't know. But this problem WILL kill this server before it has the chance to get started.

This wasn't a problem in the old gamemodes because money came easier. People could easily recover, but not so here. A player gets on average 16 bags of weed per harvest, which is 2000 dollars. This is not enough to keep new players in play as that is the cost of buying the seeds back.

No I'm not saying give players more money, give players more starting money. Because this will result in hyper inflation like the older servers had, where everyone was rich.

I literally started out saying that this thread was not because I was mad.

But if you want players to play with and against, this needs to get down to a respectable level.

I agree that new players need some sort of protection from constant raiding. Doing this without completely holding their hands and babying them is difficult or creating retarded rules/methods to combat it doesn't seem like the best idea. There should be a minimum playtime for a door to be lockpicked, but even this wont protect them very long. Four/six/eight/ten/ even longer than that isn't much a deterrent or long enough play time to get people settled into the game mode tbh. It's a good start, that's for sure, but as soon as that timer is up the raids begin. You should of gave some more ideas instead of a rant-like post. I can say our group tends to stay away from the newer players and even helps them at times, and I know there's others who do the same. But it's PERP, and it's a perpetual cycle of bullshit and rage. Once the newer players get settled, they start to raid the others because it's what happened to them.


And this doesn't help your case. Maybe you should think about how you provoke us before you wonder why you get raided by us. We've helped and ignored as many new players as we possibly can. The issue of new players leaving from raids isn't on us. Direct your blame somewhere else.


I'd love to ignore your childish attitude towards us, but it's hard to. We don't cheat, none of us cheat. Get over it, quit being repetitive with your bullshit. Add some tangible feedback here.
This is not a thread to argue who carries out raids, as you see I havn't mentioned any specific players or organizations. I simply want to shed some light on the excessive raiding currently going on. Don't take it personal.

I tried to make as many suggestions as I could, without ruling out raiding completely or nursing players to life. I think it should be harder to lockpick doors overall, making it less likely that people will constantly return due to the cost, and some may even quit halfway through as they run out of picks on the way in.

A rant thread would simply be "Omg don't raid so muz pls" but its not, I tried to keep it professional and carried out some investigations that lead me to this conclusion.

Yes new players will also raid after they get money etc. that is not the point here. It needs to be harder to raid overall. I have seen some people literally raid the entire apartment building in 10 minutes. Yes having tons of money for picks makes this is possible, but it should be harder to do so even without much resistance or cades.

Point is, this thread is not a rant, and its not targeting players. So dont say that.

(I add suggestions to the main thread as I think of more ways to make it harder without breaking it)
 
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Harley

Server Administrator
There isn't money to be made from raiding at its current state, breaking eight lockpicks in a row to open a single door isn't a helpful solution. Making it harder to raid isn't a valid solution either. It shouldn't be hard and isn't raid someone who just started the game and is growing in an apartment with maybe five pots, a five seven, and a single prop at best. The NLR timer could possibly be increased, but that has nothing to do with helping new players out. All this will do is make it even harder to raid more established players and big groups which is already difficult as it is with the current metas.

And Braindawg suggested a 3 shot kill for an AK. That isn't viable and never will be. That just bolsters the defenders in every way. Three shots is too many to kill someone who you barely see in most situations. They get hit once or twice, they stim, and the cycle repeats. AK's firing rate could be brought down a little, considering M4's were BY FAR the most used gun in the old variation of PERP on AreanGaming, and it's done a total switch even though the stats are unchanged. We don't need 10 minute long gunfights like DarkRP because it takes 8 bullets to kill someone, and 1/3 of your bullets didn't even register in the first place.
 

X74

Server Administrator
Git gud

In all seriousness though, I think the biggest issue is just the cost of the things it takes to SUCCESSFULLY grow anything worth enough to make more than what you spent. Think about it. You'll die using a pistol so that's money usually wasted, but AKs cost over 3k now and the ammo is another 1600 or something each, and you probably want about two. For good raiders that's still not enough; they'll come in groups so you need props. You also need a decent property which varies but we'll assume about $1000. You have to be safe for well over an hour to make up for what you just bought to gear up even without props and even then you may not survive. The problem is two things and only one needs fixing to solve the problem: The price of everything, and the sale price/amount of weed. Before, AKs could safely be sold for less than half the price they could now, among other items, yet the methods of actually making that money haven't changed and are slightly worse with the removal of unemployment checks. Nobody can make money because they spend twice as much as before trying to make it back and then fail part of the way through because they get swarmed and shot to death, and lose their weapon and all the ammo they had on them among everything else like weed and shrooms, so you have to buy it all back with what you just made which probably wasn't very much, and that means you essentially made nothing in the hour you just spent. You just grew weed for an hour to sell it and buy the same gear you did last time, end up with probably less money than you had before, so you can repeat the same process over again hoping you don't get fucked. God forbid they also Molotov you if you put props down. The risk isn't worth it compared to just taking a government job because at least doing that, you're guaranteed to make that money and you don't have to spend anything to even have a chance at making it.

Even if they do need tweaking, none of it has anything to do with how powerful certain weapons are. It's all about the money.
 
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Git gud

In all seriousness though, I think the biggest issue is just the cost of the things it takes to SUCCESSFULLY grow anything worth enough to make more than what you spent. Think about it. You'll die using a pistol so that's money usually wasted, but AKs cost over 3k now and the ammo is another 1600 or something each, and you probably want about two. For good raiders that's still not enough; they'll come in groups so you need props. You also need a decent property which varies but we'll assume about $1000. You have to be safe for well over an hour to make up for what you just bought to gear up even without props and even then you may not survive. The problem is two things and only one needs fixing to solve the problem: The price of everything, and the sale price/amount of weed. Before, AKs could safely be sold for less than half the price they could now, among other items, yet the methods of actually making that money haven't changed and are slightly worse with the removal of unemployment checks. Nobody can make money because they spend twice as much as before trying to make it back and then fail part of the way through because they get swarmed and shot to death, and lose their weapon and all the ammo they had on them among everything else like weed and shrooms, so you have to buy it all back with what you just made which probably wasn't very much, and that means you essentially made nothing in the hour you just spent. You just grew weed for an hour to sell it and buy the same gear you did last time, end up with probably less money than you had before, so you can repeat the same process over again hoping you don't get fucked. God forbid they also Molotov you if you put props down. The risk isn't worth it compared to just taking a government job because at least doing that, you're guaranteed to make that money and you don't have to spend anything to even have a chance at making it.

Even if they do need tweaking, none of it has anything to do with how powerful certain weapons are. It's all about the money.

I do see some truth to this. To buy 2 boxes of rifle ammo and an AK. You're handing out over 6k. A few grand on some props, seeds and 5 pots. There goes your 10k starting cash. Not to mention the lower seed yield, so you be running back for more shortly after.

These are the suggestions currently made, which sounds reasonable.
  • Either lower the prices of items (weapons and ammo), or increase the yield or price per bag of pot.
  • Balance the AK's fire rate, I think the damage is fine. A bullet to the head should kill you, it sucks but come on.
  • Make it slightly harder to lockpick, I think the 15% break rate is fine but it should take a few more attempts to get in.
  • Increase NLR to 10 minutes, to allow people a chance to restore their former stronghold after a failed raid.
  • A higher prop limit maybe, to at least allow a single player to make a somewhat decent layer of protection.
Shrooms seems fine, you take a bigger risk using them but the reward is also higher, plus they grow pretty fast.
 

X74

Server Administrator
I don't think lockpicking or anything else really needs changed, just the money issue. There's not much accessibility to things right now in terms of what you can buy and making it worth it. The price you pay for lock picks can still stack up VERY quickly with how many of them break especially when you consider that often times, you're not just picking one door. Harley is right when he says there really isn't much money in raiding. It's mostly just fun. If you run out of lock picks in a raid, which, you can lose a fuckton of them, the raid is over. You may have gotten guns from dead people or nothing at all, which will pay for what you spent on lock picks (maybe), but you may not have gained anything much even if you find their weed when you factor in things like ammo cost again, because you can't unequip ammo.

I feel like there should be a separate item for non-full boxes of ammo, maybe, that corresponds with how many you had in your inventory when you unequipped all matching weapons if that's even possible. Or maybe something in the F1 menu that you can click on and it just puts all the spares back in your inventory. You really do end up sinking a fuckton of money into ammo you don't always use much of just to get hit by a fucking fire truck or log out later anyway. Ammo dropping as well would be a good thing when you consider that right now, on a dead person it just fucking vanishes to never be seen again where it could be a good way for raiders and even cops to make more money, because right now the only money they make is whatever ends up selling for more than all the lock picks and ammo they wasted getting inside wherever they're raiding, and that may not amount to much.
 
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I don't think lockpicking or anything else really needs changed, just the money issue. There's not much accessibility to things right now in terms of what you can buy and making it worth it. The price you pay for lock picks can still stack up VERY quickly with how many of them break especially when you consider that often times, you're not just picking one door. Harley is right when he says there really isn't much money in raiding. It's mostly just fun. If you run out of lock picks in a raid, which, you can lose a fuckton of them, the raid is over. You may have gotten guns from dead people or nothing at all, which will pay for what you spent on lock picks (maybe), but you may not have gained anything much even if you find their weed when you factor in things like ammo cost again, because you can't unequip ammo.

I feel like there should be a separate item for non-full boxes of ammo, maybe, that corresponds with how many you had in your inventory when you unequipped all matching weapons if that's even possible. You really do end up sinking a fuckton of money into ammo you don't always use much of just to get hit by a fucking fire truck or log out later anyway.
More money for weed, lower cost for weapons, and ammo saving across deaths and connects could be hella neat.
 

X74

Server Administrator
Not across deaths if it isn't "holstered" like with your weapon. It definitely should be something that can be stored like a gun, but dropped like one too.

It would just be "rifle ammo" for example with some indicator as to how many rounds you get out of it, I guess. That's the best way I can think of going about it anyway.

I think successes should be rewarded more for both defending and raiding and ammo drops would reward whoever wins appropriately by allowing them to make up for the ammo they used by maybe picking it off of a dead body to reuse or sell. As of right now it just disappears never to be used again which is a waste to both sides that further makes both raiding and growing less worth the cost and risk.
 
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El Jameo

Sack of Shit
Server Administrator
Raiding isn't the problem here (though it's not without its own problems).

The problem is new players being chucked in at the deep end. The gamemode is still somewhat bland and will constantly have new things to do as updates ensure an easier entry, but I won't disguise the fact that if you're new the best resource you have is OOC. That's not okay. Period.

We need legit ways for people to make money so new players can get on that without being fussed by experienced players. Shops? More intermediate tier, especially with the high skill requirements to make things like AK's which is what people really want. "Those legit ways" say the ExiledRP hardened players? "Nah, that's a slow way of making money. Growing's where it's at." This allows people to learn the gamemode, get the jobs, work their way through before having the confidence and money to grow. Of course, they can still access the hard stuff straight away but it'll be pretty harsh.

I for one, suck at shooting. I just can't (also foreign connection whey). But if I could have easier alternates when I'm not banning people that would be great. That's what new people need: Not weapon re-balances, rather good ideas for good business.
 
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